Gmx v2: new low-latency chainlink feeds

On-chain will eventually get to the state that they are a reliable source for trustable pricing, but currently between latency (block times on ETH as an example) and thinner liquidity on other venues that make the price easier to manipulate. The options you listed today reliable enough, have the pricing accuracy that would be needed for GMX to use them to price positions or sufficient market depth for our contracts to construct price impact.

Greater utilization of on-chain pricing is something that has been discussed with Chainlink and is something they have spent considerable time on as they prepare for where the market is going.

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I missed this before. Recently GMX LPā€™s have had a ~10% profit margin on fees. So shelling out 1.2% of revenue to Sergeyā€™s slush fund is actually taking a 10% bite out of gross profit. Maybe we should consider donating 1.2% of net LP profit instead of gross fees

https://twitter.com/crypto_noodles/status/1637395166783758337

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This proposal is for V2, the example provided is for V1, there will be different mechanics in V2 that will help reduce LP risk, including but not limited to - Funding Fees, Borrow Fees and Positive/Negative Price impact for traders opening/closing positions.

The proposed CL oracle model will not impact the current V1 set up.

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Weā€™re supposed to be making business decision based on something that doesnā€™t exist yet that aims to solve a hard problem? Shouldnā€™t we punt on this then until we see how V2 LP performs?

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Seems pretty amateur to be pricing expenses based on hypothetical margins for an upgrade that hasnā€™t shipped for ages now

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I would like to thank everyone who has engaged with this important discussion in good faith. Your contributions are appreciated tremendously.

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@coinflipcanda - does this exclusivity agreement with Chainlink extend to other services they offer like keepers / VRF?

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Hi Johann,

Thanks for these explanations. I have been checking back on this page frequently over the last few days to see how the conversation is progressing. AIā€™s summary of the discussion to date can be found below:

Criticisms:

  • The fee allocation to Chainlink is too high and should be reduced or negotiated.
  • The proposal lacks details on how Chainlinkā€™s solution compares with other oracle providers and why it is the best option for GMX.
  • The proposal does not address the potential risks or drawbacks of using Chainlinkā€™s low-latency oracles, such as data quality, security, or reliability.

Suggestions:

  • The proposal should include a cost-benefit analysis of using Chainlinkā€™s low-latency oracles versus other alternatives.
  • The proposal should include a roadmap or timeline for the integration and testing of Chainlinkā€™s low-latency oracles on GMX V21.
  • The proposal should include a feedback mechanism or a trial period for evaluating the performance and impact of Chainlinkā€™s low-latency oracles on GMX V2.
  • The proposal should include a contingency plan or an exit strategy in case Chainlinkā€™s low-latency oracles fail to meet the expectations or requirements of GMX V2.

Something Iā€™ve been thinking may have value is a benchmarking exercise, as it is apparent that currently it is unclear how 1.2% of fees reflects value for money for GMX. I believe it can be demonstrated that the proposal represents value for money for GMX based on some quick benchmarking with MakerDao (see below). Perhaps Chainlink can prepare something more comprehensive?

A quick look at what MakerDao currently allocates towards their in-house oracle team. They have an approved annual budget of approximately $5m USD (or 15.5 FTEā€™s + operation costs associated with that team - MIP40c3-SP15: Modify Oracles Core Unit Budget - Maker Improvement Proposals / Archive - The Maker Forum (makerdao.com)). This equates to a $419k monthly expense to support the team mandate. According to their Expense Reporting they currently they employ a team of 9 Full-Time equivalents.

What I am getting at is, oracle/web3 services are expensive, and the solutions these services allow for are valuable. Perhaps Chainlink can articulate this more clearly here?

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Ridiculous for this to be occurring on a governance platform for another protocal.

CFC always the professional and so happy to have you as a part of the team.

the agreement doesnā€™t extend any exclusivity on these other products, but i would propose that GMX should definitely consider being a potential early adopter and provide inputs on the development of these products (core contributors already are doing this) so that they can meet our required use cases.

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Love this. As someone doing this in a different vertical/space our technology partner does this exactly.

Gotcha. Yes thatā€™s definitely an avenue worth exploring. Might also be worth seeing if there are additional partners out there who can serve some of these other discrete ā€œmiddlewareā€ or ā€œservice providerā€ roles + have some type of arrangement that is incentive compatible for both parties, similar in spirit to this proposal here for the provisioning & ongoing servicing of oracle feeds

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Hello everyone, Hi @coinflipcanda

Marcin from RedStone Oracles here. First of all, great to see GMX improving and tackling the most pressing problems in the V2 update. Our team is glad to see in the comments a factual discussion about Chainlink alternatives - it shows that the market is mature enough for diversity.
Monopolies are never good for innovation and can lead to groupthink, which is detrimental to the security, especially in such a distributed space as Web3.

We are strongly convinced that GMX needs to consider more than just one oracle to take the best possible decision in terms of sustainable long-term development and protocolā€™s leading position in the competitive perpetuals market.

The aim of this comment is to:

  1. Amplify for the GMX Community that Chainlink is not ā€˜the only possible solutionā€™.
  2. Bring awareness that the total price of 1.2% for GMX will possibly be a huge absolute number and the proposal does not mention anything about gas costs.
  3. Support the discussion about the possible oracle options and suggest transparent & public benchmarking of possible incumbents including Chainlink, Pyth and RedStone.
  4. Signify RedStoneā€™s readiness to support the GMX DAO as a primary oracle, support requested assets (esp. These that Chainlink canā€™t deliver in a timely manner) and cooperate shoulder-to-shoulder with the GMX Core Contributors to provide all necessary input for them to make the most optimal decision regarding oracles going forward.

RedStone X for Perpetuals

RedStone Oracles disrupts the space with Modular design, providing 3 data consumption models. For Perpetuals (and specifically having GMXā€™s architecture in mind) we have designed:

RedStone X model (No Front-running): targeting the needs of the most advanced DeFi protocols by eliminating the front-running risk through offsetting the delay between the userā€™s interaction and the Oracle price update. Here is a high-level overview of how that works:

This model introduces No-latency - there is no delay between the Userā€™s request and the oracle price hence there is no possibility of frontrunning the Userā€™s transaction. Our infrastructure asks retroactively: what was the price for the underlying asset at the exact timestamp when the Request has been submitted?

Then it pushes the price with the timestamp back to the dApp to settle the position in the very next block.

Why RedStone Oracles

RedStone is well positioned as an alternative to Chainlink for GMX, here is why:

  • RedStone is ā€œTheā€ On-Demand Oracle - we have been promoting the on-demand model narrative and developing our solution for the past 2 years and we know very well that the implementation of such a model is far from trivial.

  • RedStone has been developed & tested since Dec 2020, on mainnet since March 2022, well audited and securing real funds. Along the way we had to solve countless tech challenges (i.e. Assembly-level optimisation of costs), so we are confident that our implementation is the most technologically advanced if it comes to the on-demand oracle model.

  • Our flow is designed to be maximally cost-efficient - happy to provide benchmarks vs other oracles on that front.

  • DeFi ecosystem is built on the premise of being decentralised & permissionless. Looking at factors limiting the decentralisation of Oracles such as governance of ā€œultimateā€ multisig or full control over the off-chain component, we designed the RedStone ecosystem, so that it can operate under any circumstances.

  • A protocol using RedStone Oracle has full clarity and transparency in terms of data sources and origins of consumed price feeds - as opposed to the black box offered by some of the popular incumbents. Moreover, we give dApps creators a spectrum of customisation options regarding off-chain and on-chain aggregation methods, as well as picking Data Providers they trust.

On top of that, RedStone = working shoulder-to-shoulder with builders.
We collaborate hands-on with our Partners to come up with an optimal solution for their specific use case, customising many parameters such as:

  • data aggregation mechanisms,
  • data injection to the chain,
  • custom flows of liquidation/opening a position etc.

We are fully committed to building an entirely dedicated solution for GMX including risk mitigation mechanisms, backtesting analysis and other very custom forms of implementation. Additionally, we are willing to be in close contact with and at disposal of GMX risk analysis partners.

Conclusion

As we have seen - the discussion about implementing Chainlink is not unanimous. We are convinced that in order to make the best possible decision Core Contributors should consider more than just one option. We would be happy to work closely with @coinflipcanda @xdev_10 and the whole team to provide all necessary data and other inputs to build benchmarks so that both oracle solutions could be tested thoroughly and transparently in terms of update and maintenance costs, long-term sustainability, security measures, transparency etc.

Also, if we were to propose the next step in this discussion we would suggest that each oracle provider prepares a testnet POC for benchmarking purposes to gather data and see which oracle solution would be best suited for the GMX-specific needs.

End Note: Our sincere apologies for submitting this comment only now. A large part of the discussion took place over the Easter Holidays, therefore we wanted to get involved once our team is back from family tables.

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@Marcin_RedStone I want to thank you for sharing your thoughts, and you know I have the utmost respect for Redstone and other Oracle providers also working and tackling the problems associated with bringing reliable data on-chain.

This specific thread is about integrating Chainlinkā€™s new low-latency oracles designed in collaboration with GMX contributors to address some specific data requirements and architecture contemplated for GMX V2. From both a technical and go to market standpoint it simply wasnā€™t feasible to undertake this effort with multiple partners.

That doesnā€™t mean other Oracles canā€™t potentially address these requirements in the future, if the DAO determines the current approach isnā€™t appropriate.

As a request, could you post this message to a new separate thread related to how Redstone can assist the DAO in its various data requirements, allowing this forum discussion to remain focused on the proposal put forward.

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This proposal has moved to snapshot for voting

https://snapshot.org/#/gmx.eth/proposal/0x71cf8eefa2b242043e1335fbbe11c8830ff5a40c3ad067865eadea1312525769

coinflipcanda will GMX be sharing this snapshot on twitter, discord, etc so the community can actively review and vote?

yes, i would expect that contributors will share it in the updates tomorrow, as has been done for other governance proposals

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thank you sir I appreciate it.

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While I have nothing against Chainlink, GMX might want to have options in choosing oracle partner, so that Chainlink couldnā€™t one day just say ā€œyou rely on our infrastructure and deeply depend on it, we want 2% from now onā€

Having an option to switch is good and healthy.

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